Do you prep for city sirvival?

[bushido]

I hear a lot of talk on how most preppers plan to escape to the country if there is a grid down situation but I plan to stay and survive in the city.

Some quick questions to discuss about city survival.

1) do you plan to stay in the city if SHTF, if yes/no why?

2) can you list your top three concerns about city survival?

[Wilson]

[quote=bushido]Do you prep for city sirvival?[/quote]

Yeah, by moving out of the city ASAP.

[bushido]

haha okay, care to add why and the top three of your concerns for city survival?

[youonlywish]

Wilson - haha.. that's in my 3 year plan. We'll have to talk about that sometime to bounce some ideas around.

Unfortunately, at this point - I live in a townhouse complex that is basically surrounded by low income housing. At this point - I plan on bugging in.

That's a loose term that blankets a lot of different aspects, but that's how I intended on using it.

I've got the things I've saved here and am in a moderately defensible location.

That said - my list of 'survival' situations will likely be different from many people around the country as we're not all subjected to the same localized dangers.

[bushido]

I plan to stay in the city because my job would keep me in the city while the collapse occurred. So, since I would be late for the bug out I might as well make use of the situation and not bother meeting the golden horde on the roads.
Since I have looked at urban prepping it has its bonuses. Lost of fuel to burn, lots of hardened structures, huge caches of food located through out the city and a land scape that I am used to and can navigate through.
The down side is dealing with people but to be honest with you, after the mass migration out of the city, the loss of life from the grid being down, I see cities at only 20 to 30 percent volume.
Then add the 60 to 80 percent predicted fatality rate that is predicted to occur in the first six months, that doesn't leave a whole bunch of people to deal with.
I have had a lot of people ask me about the 'gnags' that will rove and loot. It will be easier for them to loot in areas without pinch points, shooting lanes and built up areas. The time it takes for them to learn from their mistakes,the toll will be high, something they are not motivated enough to learn. Their behavoir of risk versus reward behavior is very evident, if their behavior has a high risk, they will not proceed.
Besides 'gangs' are not as motivated as a group of friends, family protecting each other or parents protecting children. Once one falls, the gang will loose its desire to proceed, they are opportunistic predators. They will move on to an easier target, just as they do in todays world.
My top three concerns for city survival are:
1) Fire, they city is a large forest of fuel. One idiot with a candle can spark it up. (Fire is also a concern for those who have a place out of the city to run to.)
2) Diseases that can occur from the dead.
3) Allocation of long term food resources. (Growing food in the city, catching game, etc.)
I am posting this to see what other ideas / concerns people. More minds that are working the better the problem solving ability is.
And for the sake of the CSD site, please no rambo, kill everyone threads/replies. When the grid goes down it will be a test of you moral compass and if you trully are a CSD, so think before you write your comments. Do you really want to be that guy who preys off of the weak during chaos, if so you are definetly not a civilian sheepdog.

[bushido]

Oh yah, to make the replies easier, I am discussing a grid down situation. No power, no water, no gas being pumped. Cars, trucks, etc are working but anything that needs electricity from the grid is out of play.
it doesnt matter how it occurres, solar flare, EMP, catastrophic computer failure, etc.

[youonlywish]

If you assume a 'no power for a month or more' type situation; you're likely falling under the umbrella of MOST widespread crisis situations.

[slushee]

I personally plan to survive the city. At least at first. I wil try to explain my prepping (in its infancy) and the reasons I choose:

First, the apt building I live in is a fortress. While the first and second floors may require vacation the stairwells can be barricaded if needed due to vandels or looting. Also, the building occupants would most likely stay and some would require help. I see this as an opportunity to survive with about 200 ppl (1/3 able bodied males) I know I am not the only shooter in the building. I believe this idealology lives up to the civilial sheepdog philospphy. Looters would attack soft easy targets. I don't see us as being soft or easy. there building can be observed and protected 360 degrees.

Shelter taken care of, there is a woodlot behind the building that would allow for the possibility of small crops (if we survive or stay that long). We also have a river a short distance away that would provide drinking water (after coffee filtered and chlorinated). As previously mentioned, food would be a concern but a team of 20 men on a food gathering mission would be safer then attempting to 'lone-wolf' it. I can't say that I've spoke to the building occupants about survival however I can see them supporting each other in a crisis.

With all that said, living in south western ontario, the only real disasters I have planned for are tornadoes, power outages and blizzards. Tornadoes do strike around these parts, we did experience a massive power outage across ontario in the 2000's and we do sometimes have nasty blizzards that knock out power.

Tornadoes-i currently have 3 days worth of food (cans) stored in a large bag with a copy of all my important documents, insurance forms, lease, I'd's, pet vacination letters, and 2 cat carriers. In a disaster I would grab my truck pack and this evacuation bag and retreat to the lower floor w the cats in their carriers to survive the tornado. Once the storm was over, if the building was damaged, I would take my evac and truck bag along w my gf and cats to another city (my parents). I own a 4x4 truck in case roads are in bad shape. I also try to keep 1/2 tank of fuel at all times in the truck.

Power outage/blizzard-i have 72 hours worth of canned food requiring no heat or cooking in case power is lost. After 72 hours the power may be restored or I would have to contimplate evacuation. I plan on getting a crank survival radio to keep up to date reguarding power restoration. The 4x4 truck would allow evacuation in all weather conditions including 3 ft of snow. Tested this in last years massive blizzard in this area. I also plan on buying an esbit stove for my evac bag as a source of heat and warm food. I also keep at least 36 litres of water in 2 18L water cooler bottles (sealed). I also have a third 'in use' on my water cooler. This would supply ample water for 72 hours as the water cooler is gravity fed. The bottles could also be evac'ed with me.

My truck bag is my bug in bag to get me home during a disaster. It has 24 hours worth of food, tools, rope, eye and ear protection, extra clothes and rain racket and tp. Most likely I would be faced with a 6 hour to 12 hour hike across the city day or night in any weather. Every 6 months it will be repacked with seasonal clothing. I keep this in case I loose the use of my vehicle or get stuck or crash on the way home. I would most likely be at work when a disaster hit which is across the city. I will have a full snow suit in the truck (too big to fit in my bag) during the winter time. The bag also has 1.5 liters of water.

As you can see I plan for 72 hours of city survival. After that I would require to evac to my parents in another city or find a government run refugee collection point. If the goverment somehow dissolved and the world ended I would have to discuss the situation with the other residense and formulate a survival plan. With the river close by, our first priority would be food gathering and summer time planting / farming in the woodlot behind our building.

I hope that gives you an idea of my plan, for better or for worse. If zombies attack, I'm not so sure I would survive past 72 hours.

[Wilson]

Access to fresh water.
Access to fresh food.

If you can demonstrate how you plan to provide those two for your household, then you're probably capable of bugging in. Otherwise, you're going to end up in a government corral (food/aid line, centre) or dead. That's the truth of it.

Water purification tablets, filters, and boiling only removes sediments and pathogens... it does not remove poisons. When shit truly hits the fan, city water supplies become questionable at best. Oh yeah, and cities consume food wholesale... they don't produce any. You cannot grow enough food to feed yourself on a whole acre, much less the back yard of a townhouse.

Cities are bad mojo for people who want to be self reliant. Sure, you can stockpile supplies in a spare room... but if things get iffy and the emergency service workers stop showing up for work, what are you going to do about fires? There's going to be a lot of those... fires from the riots, fires from people trying to start them to stay warm or cook, fires from the violence... And a low-income area? Dude, you're just asking for trouble. Those are the FIRST people who are going to take what they see to feed themselves.

You cannot provide for yourself where you are and you cannot guarantee any level of security. Get out, get out while you still can.

[slushee]

That's a good point about poisons in the water supply. With industrial run off and the city in a mess, the river flowing through this city would easily be contaminated.

So with that said, after 72 hours it becomes time to ecav to family living beside a lake for me! Long term survivability off farming is obviously not a strong suit of mine however I was looking at a thread with some survival books and I hope to aquire a few soon. I do agree that city survival should be looked at as temporary in a complete end of world sinario. Most of my plans short of evac clearly revolve around some sembalence of government. And its funny but the 2 primary concerns is food and water. Without those your dead. Period!

[Wilson]

Even in minor, isolated, emergencies the government has a proven inability to help you. The majority of the time, first "responders" are performing recovery - not rescue. The main reason for this is because there simply aren't enough men and women on the ground to help everyone... because every single citizen would have to be a first responder

It took FEMA three days to get water to the superdome during Katrina, and that was the best performance they've ever demonstrated. Up in Canada, people went without basically everything for weeks during the 1998 ice storm. Plenty of people were hospitalized due to exposure, dehydration and malnutrition during that one.

Besides, reliance on others (government included in that) is for sheep. If you're going to rely on someone else to feed, clothe, shelter, and protect you and you family during a crisis - or any time, really - you are part of the problem.

The bottom line:

• Have at least three months stored supply of food, water, personal hygiene products and medical materials on location. 72 hours doesn't cut it, because that's how long it usually takes governments to realize there's a problem in the first place and, coincidentally, it's also how long it takes grocery stores within driving distance of your area to empty out. Don't have room for three months of material? Make room. Can't make room? Move. That brings me to my next point.
  
• Get the heck out of the city! I simply cannot stress this enough. Cities do nothing but consume, consume, consume and it takes a vast, interconnected and highly fragile network of systems to keep the steady flow of resources coming in. One little hiccup, as we have been seeing around the globe since the dawn of time (if this is news to you, give your damn head a shake), and it all comes crashing down - it is always put back together, like a Jenga puzzle, but that takes time... how much time? It depends on how many pieces... and we're always adding about 7% more per year. You don't have to move to Timbuktu to make it happen! There's always agricultural property for sale in the areas bordering the municipalities where you currently work. Invest in a fuel efficient vehicle, make the move, and learn to enjoy the commute. There's actually very little difference, in areas with 400-series and similar freeways, between commuting across town through traffic or commuting into town from an outlying area.
  
• Provide for yourself. You cannot do this in any practical manner inside of city limits. I'm sorry, but it's just not possible. Crops require fertilizer, which animals provide, and animals require crops - it's a cycle that people have been utilizing for thousands of years. A self-sufficient household does not require regular resupply from the outside world. With sufficient knowledge, and willpower, absolutely everything that human life requires can be created on a single parcel of land. There are many great resources for obtaining the information required to make it all work.
  

The engines are stalling on the global economy right now, so it's time to start thinking about the long term picture before the whole plane is in an uncontrolled vertical dive. It doesn't take a Masters in economics to understand that the current trends are not sustainable. Sooner or later things are going to go belly up for a long while. This won't turn the planet into a fiery hellscape, but it most definitely will separate the wheat from the chaff!

You can either make the necessary adjustments right now at moderate cost and time invested, or you can make them later when the costs may very involve losing your life.

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